Michael Jackson & Diana Ross. YOUR view? [Utube heavy with a MASSIVE 6pg post!]
Recently, I've been peering in on the relationship between Diana and Michael, and I was curious about how other fans feel about the two of them. This is going to feel like I’m telling Michael’s life story to a whole bunch of people who already know it, lol. But I’ve written it up this way so that I may be able to go back and point out for reference. Also notice that the ‘eras’ that I’ve mentioned here and the certain periods of Michael’s life are pretty loose.
When Michael was a boy, he (and his brothers) moved in with Diana for more than a year on and off, so he wouldn't have to tag along with his older, partying brothers in the various hotels they lodged at, they went between Diana's house and Berry Gordy's place. He was around 10, she, around 24. She introduced him into a world of art (something which, ever since, Michael has regarded very highly.)
From MY understanding, Diana grew fond of the cute little boy and was upset when Michael was to go back to his parents. Michael admired her very very much (as did all of the Jackson 5) but Diana definitely did have a lasting impression on young Mike. I think it’s fair to say that he had a boyhood crush on her. Now... what I'm getting at... did this crush grow into something more as Michael got older? It's very clear that he loves her, and she loves him.
In Michael's autobiography, he describes her as a mother, lover, and sister all combined. Before I continue... Michael ain't stupid, I'm pretty positive he knows what 'lover' means. I'll get this part out of the way... Janet and La Toya have both confirmed that Diana was his first (please, please, correct me if Janet and La Toya's involvement is false.)
I've noticed that MJ fans are very divided on this. Some say he looked up to her as a mother figure, and she as a son. Others say there was definitely somethin' going on, even if only briefly.
I hear that when Diana first got married, Michael, being only a teen at the time, was secretly devastated. Diana's marriage didn't last and she didn't get married again until the mid-late 80's. So this leaves us in and between 'Off The Wall,' and 'Thriller' (Give or take.) When Diana was to get married again after Thriller, Michael allegedly refused to walk her down the aisle/be best man/attend at all (there are numerous versions of this story.) Michael admitted his love for Diana many times, in Moonwalk more than once, and in various interviews, this one, is from Ebony in '84.
Ebony: Any Black ladies in your life?
Michael: "Sure, but you wouldn't take me seriously."
Ebony: Try me.
Michael: "It's Diana Ross. I love her."
Ebony: Do you mean as a "big sister?"
Michael: "No, that's not what I mean. See, I told you that you wouldn't take me seriously."
Ebony: You're not saying you'd like to marry Diana Ross, are you?
Michael: "Oh yeah, I'm saying that."
Ebony: But she's so much older than you. You mean you feel something other than close friendship for her?
Michael: "Uh huh. And what does age have to do with it? Look at it this way: how old would you be if you didn't even know how old you are?"
Apparently, Michael really did believe he was in a relationship with her, but it was all in his head or something. It sounds to me that Michael never confessed his feelings to her face, which is a very Michael thing to do, I expect he was as nervous as a teenager to do so. And, also, Diana did not really realize the extent of Michael's infatuation. Diana is a flirty chick by nature, and Michael is a sensitive guy by nature. Taking Michael's personality into account, I wouldn't blame him for developing feelings for a woman who was so flamboyantly flirting with him.
I understand that Michael seemed to have his own little flock of famous women in the 80's. (He must be a DIVA man.) They're what I would describe as his personal cheerleading squad, lol. They all flirted with him to an extent on each of their parts and supported him. Some became romantic relationships, like with Brooke Shields, some were just downright good friends, like Liz Tailor. They... they being Brooke Shields, Liz Tailor, Liza Minnelli and Diana Ross, they could see that Michael was a sensitive kinda dude. But they could also see how much he had going for him, and how much he didn't realize it, so they all kinda doted on him and stroked his ego, supporting him 100%, without any personal romantic interest of their own, simply as his good friends.
There was cute chemistry between him and Shields, they looked like they had a lot of good times. Michael looked like he and Minnelli got on so well because of their musical backgrounds, he probably learned a lot from her in the writing department. Liz Tailor and Michael seemed to have a confused chemistry at times, but I think they both knew they were destined to be close friends. The chemistry between Michael and Diana however... flamin' hot.
Now let’s get this outta the way, when I say their chemistry was flaming hot, that does not mean that either one of them acknowledged it, they may not have even known it was there, but it was there. Did Diana only see him as her surrogate son, a boy grown into a successful young man who she was immensely proud of? If Michael's attraction is so clear to so many today, then surely she would have seen it too? I expect that she rather enjoyed having a young man's star-filled eyes full of adoration set on her whenever possible. But Diana’s a smart woman, she knows what’s proper and what’s not. She’s a very good at testing the waters of a situation and acting accordingly, but off the record, did she feel something mature for him as well? Or did she feel something mature for him and not REALIZE it? Perhaps it was on a subliminal level? Surely Diana, being so in tune with... all that... would recognize what a sexy thang she had more than willing to dedicate himself to her? But as I said, Diana’s a smart woman.
I've got a couple of examples, and I'm gonna link them and go through them one by one (these are things that people on youtube have pointed out, and what I've noticed myself)...
1979, MJ and DR perform 'Ease on Down' from The Wiz. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHn63D18opc Beware, this 'Diana' show was edited really oddly, so a few shots might be shown twice.
Michael, where being in a performance allows, has his undivided attention on Diana. He also appears to be having tons of fun, lol.
At around 1:10, Diana does a little shimmy and Michael seems to be shyly taken aback between verses. At 1:45 things get REALLY interesting. Diana calls Michael sexy, and he immediately goes shucks, blushes and squirms in his seat and tells her, "You embarrass me," when he says it, he's grinning like a freakin' idiot, lol, and looks to be on cloud NINE! Then he repays the favor and tells her that he knew she would be sexy, as he says it, notice the way he looks her up and down in a rather mature fashion, lol. (Not something Michael does often.) Michael looks away to the floor for a minute, and when he looks up Diana has got her game on, posing and pouting in front of him. Michael reels back, raises his eyebrows and grins. Diana turns away and Michael follows for a closer look, lol. She turns and makes a sexy face at him and Michael goes all giggly again.
A few years after this, Michael & Diana go to the Oscars together, hand in hand. (Ignore the information at the beginning of this vid, it's the Hollywood version of the Jackson 5 history.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSSOS3YhixY&feature=related
They look cute together don't they? Michael seems so happy here. Diana answers the interviewers question with a, "We're gonna do something soon," and Michael watches her enraptured, and, also a little cheekily. Notice how when she glances at him he beams. Diana says, "He's going to play my son," and both hers, and his response is, "Aha ha ha HA HA HA!" As if the mere notion of Michael playing her son in a film is absurd and hilarious and ridiculous. They seem to treat it as an inside joke, laughing about something only they understand. When Michael is asked about how he feels about playing her son, he says, "It's great!" Heh. Michael playing Diana's son in a flick? That'll be the day.
Then, on a day made famous by a girl named Billie Jean, Diana performs "Someday We'll Be Together," at the end of the 25th Motown reunion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEycz-xmZoY
Through the song, Diana calls out the various stars onto the stage. But at 5:59 when we spot a certain pair of sparkly socks, she yells out his name like his biggest fan, He goes straight into her arms. Diana turns and embraces someone else and from then on into pretty much the entire performance, his eyes are all over her. I missed it at first, but on the second viewing, once you spot it, you see it, so watch him like a hawk. Michael hugs a dude, but immediately afterward his eyes are back on Diana. Even in the long shot at 6:59, Michael's attention is turned to his left, and who's at his left? Diana.
Now we're gonna go backwards again, back to '79 and Diana's TV special. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haoXt4SHxhc Diana performs “Upside Down," and invites Michael up on stage to dance. And, he does. Our shy, blushing easily embarrassed Michael is up there in a shot. (And I realize that he wasn't all that embarrassed back in those days, but gee he didn’t have a moments hesitation.)
Before Michael is on stage, Diana sings to familiar figure off stage in the shadows at 1:00. Whoever it is, they dance in a familiar fashion, and I'm convinced that it's Michael. Looks just like him after he steps forward and reaches out for her. Although you can't see it, you can tell he swings his hips like Michael by the way his shoulders roll. Diana invites Michael on stage, and afterward at 1:53 as he's making his way to the stage, she sings with a new, different quality to her voice as though she can't wait for him to join her. When Michael makes it to the stage, the crowd goes wild and Diana warns them to "Watch out."
Now this, THIS is when things started to raise questions to me. Michael has always been someone who, through some amazing force, can completely transcend the physical separation of a camera. He's always had a huge amount of sex appeal when he dances, but when he dances here, the chemistry level goes through the ROOF!
[NOTICE] To all the girls, even if you don't care for Diana and whatever she may have had with Michael, WATCH this vid. A rare glimpse of the tight blue jeans and cowboy boots of that era and DAMN Michael certainly can work 'em!
Michael works the floor, attention completely on Diana as they both dance and damn they look good together. Michael then snatches her microphone, and promptly proceeds to completely steal the show. Morale of the story? Never invite Michael Jackson on stage, for he will upstage you without even trying. They dance into each other’s arms, and the music ends before it's time so Diana doesn't get completely upstaged by the King of Pop, lol. He says, "I love you," whether to the audience, her, or both, we'll never fully know. It's also a great vid to watch when you're feeling down about Michael, makes me smile to see him so happy again.
At the American Music Awards in '84, Diana presented Michael with the 'Merit of Honor.' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5MdkEKTeGU&feature=player_embedded
Now this is more a moment for Diana. She calls Michael up onto the stage, and he hams it up (either for Diana or Brooke,) striking a pose and busting a few moves to the Billie Jean being played in the background. He turns to accept the award and makes a beeline for Diana, either remembers, or is pointed in the right direction by her, quickly changes course and heads for Q. He hugs Quincy, then the other two guys for less than a second each, and turns and envelopes Diana into his arms for a grand total of 5 seconds. It looks like a very sweet warm hug (lucky Diva.)
He thanks everyone before turning his attention back to Diana, and goes in for another hug. Some people think that she pushes his kiss away, but it looks to me that she just touched his face/grabbed his chin. Then, while they're hugging at 5:04, Diana's warm feelings for Michael are clear as a bell on her face. At 5:26 she clearly looks on at him with warm feelings as he thanks her. He says, "I'm so honored that she-" and then she cuts him off and says, "That I taught you to dance right?" Michael, Diana, and the crowd laugh. Diana taught Michael to dance? The horizontal dance maybe... Michael thanks some more and Billie Jean comes on again and he strikes another sexy pose.
The next video is a Diana & Michael tribute video, with a collection of pictures that shows Michael's feelings quite well. A picture is worth a thousand words right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73pOv9uMXbk&NR=1&feature=fvwp
2:39. In '86, Diana re-married. The author of this vid seems to think he looks pissed off, but I personally think he just looks nonchalant and gutted. (I don't know where these photos are from, but I'm pretty sure they may be from her wedding.)
Two years later, Michael's autobiography 'Moonwalk' is released in '88, meaning it was probably written in late '86 to early '88. Michael claimed that it took him years to get over Diana, remember, he really thought they had something, and then she goes and gets married to someone he's never even met. (Many people understand that Michael may have been the jealous type.) So Moonwalk was written at the time when Michael was trying to get over her, explains why he mentions her every three sentences, lol.
This is what I've been getting at. It seems that their relationship changed after Diana's second marriage, it went back to the mother/son thing I think, or, closer to a great friendship than maternal affection one. Michael didn't see as much of Diana after that, probably because he didn't want to have to see her with another man. I'm pretty sure Diana once said that Michael wanted to marry her so that nothing could come between them, so yes, it does read a little like jealousy (or just plain heartbreak.)
I'm not asking if you think she was his one, or if you think she reciprocated his feelings, or if you think she really did pop his cherry. I'm asking if you think they could have made it work, or if you think it was never to be?
She was 14 years older than him. If she had initiated a relationship with Michael in the 80's it would have been largely frowned upon. (Cougars weren't hot yet.) If they had a relationship in secret, they hid it well. If they had a fling, then that's all it was, a fling that Michael desperately hung himself up on. Somehow I think, if they had gotten together, they would have, in time, made it work, eventually, age wouldn’t have mattered. They were both dedicated to their work, so there was little chance one or the other would become jealous of the other's love for music. My point being that Diana wouldn’t completely be Michael’s entire world, and he wouldn’t completely be hers, they’re both individuals.
Michael is a Virgo. Diana an Aries. This is how their romance chart reads. (I don’t buy into this stuff a lot but I thought it was worth it because of the coincidence.)
"They will communicate well and understand one another instantly. Aries will adore Virgo’s intelligence. Virgo will want to immediately seduce Aries. Attraction heats up quickly and a romantic relationship could follow. Virgo is a huge turn on for sexually intense Aries. Sexual and romantic compatibility will be mutually satisfying. Family matters and loyalty will keep these two together. Aries must not play any head games with Virgo or there will be a price to pay. Virgo needs to keep Aries grounded and both will be happy. The attraction between them will be strong enough to survive any emotional storms."
Basically Michael and Diana's relationship in less than 800 words.
Imagine though. Diana is such a stable person, probably the most grounded person Michael ever knew, she would have done wonders for him. Michael was still trying to get over her when the press really started getting their claws out, if he'd had her support, maybe things would have turned out differently? Where was Diana when Michael went through his trials? Imagine if she had been there, she always, ALWAYS defended him when she could, if they had been closer, maybe Michael would not have fallen into such despair? Maybe he'd still be alive?
More than anything, I would have wanted Michael to be happy, and Diana clearly did that for him. Whatever your views, one cannot deny the attraction between them, at the very LEAST on Michael's part. He and she loved each other, whether he was IN love with her... well, we'll never know. Remember, Michael DID dedicate “Remember The Time,” to her, and we all know the lyrics to that one... Maybe she was the one, but maybe they were never able to fall in love properly.
But then again... Michael idolized her, and no one’s perfect. What if he and her did get together, and she was not all that he had dreamed of? He would have walked away even more hurt. Maybe Diana never initiated a relationship because she did not want to kill that sense of wonder and perfectness that Michael had for her. She probably understood his feelings for her were a great comfort to him, but, when push comes to shove, Diana wasn't going to be unhappy NOT remarrying simply to keep Michael's fantasy romance alive.
I like to think they could have made it work. He was so comfortable around her, you can see it. He was more confident, more at ease and smiled with a different quality when she made him happy. Maybe he would have appeared just as happy with Lisa and Debbie had he not changed so much?
I would have liked to see them together, think about it, they could have been Hollywood's power couple. The first Brad & Angelina if you will. (With far more cuteness of course.)
Do you think Diana could have made a difference? With all the different factors that I've encountered or thought of finally lined up in one MASSIVE post, do you think they could have made it work?
And FINALLY, why am I asking this? Well, whatever way you slice it, their story would make a fantastic film one day... And I need your help in figuring out whether or not I should be pro-MJ/DR, or just let bygones be bygones?
Apologies for all those who diligently sat through my post, and for those who fell asleep reading it I hope, if you didn’t get anything else out of this post, you at least enjoy the videos, lol.
Authors Note: Just want to point out that this thread is completely hypothetical. Simply started to discuss whether it could have been different. Anything discussed in this thread WILL NOT and never COULD change the way things were. It's all just speculation folks.